Interview with Capt Bowyer

08.06.07

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Record of interview conducted by Paul Fuller at Southampton Airport on 8th June 2007, final version amended using Capt Bowyer's comments dated 8 July 2007, with added comments by Paul Fuller in square brackets. Paul has paraphrased Capt Bowyer's answers.

  1. What is your full name?
    Raymond Anthony Bowyer
  2. How long have you been an airline pilot?
    Ray has been flying since 1984. His first airline job was in 1989.
  3. Which airlines have you flown for?
    Numerous. Novair, Regionair, Channel Express, Jersey European, Fain Air Europe, Aurigny.
  4. What aircraft have you flown?
    Fokker 27, numerous other smaller aircraft, Trislander, etc. Ray has also conducted calibration work at airports for Hunting. PA 34 Navajo Aircraft.
  5. Which routes have you regularly flown?
    The principle routes over the past five years are Guernsey-Alderney, Alderney-Southampton, Guernsey-Jersey, Guernsey-Dinard [near St Malo, PF].
  6. How many years have you been flying from Southampton to the Channel Islands?
    Eight and a half years
  7. How many trips would that have included? [Days per week?]
    500-600 return trips.
  8. Which aircraft were you flying on the day of your encounter ? [model and number]
    Brittain Norman BN2 Mark 3 Trislander GXTOR.
  9. How many years have you been flying that particular aircraft to the Channel Islands ?
    Eight and a half years.
  10. How long does the flight from Southampton to Alderney usually take ?
    Around 40 minutes in still air.
  11. What was the intended destination/route of this particular flight ? [with times of arrival/departure]
    Southampton-Alderney-Southampton [Ray did not have his pilots logbook with him to check. The correct times are listed in the SRG report]
  12. Is that the usual flight plan ?
    Yes.
  13. Who else accompanied you in the cockpit during this flight ? Did you have a co-pilot or a navigator ?
    There was no-one else in the cockpit. Ray pilots the aircraft by himself. The passengers sit right behind him in an open cabin.
  14. Did they see the lights as well as you ?
    Yes. Ray thinks that up to nine of his passengers saw the lights.
  15. What did they think of the lights ?
    They were very interested. The fellow sitting behind Ray and Kate Russell saw two lights. [but the couple sitting behind him (the Russells) only saw one of the lights.] This may be because their view was more restricted than that of the man sitting directly behind Ray.
  16. Where were you when you first saw the first light ? Please indicate on diagram 1. How does this correspond to the Channel Islands control zone shown on CAA Aeronautical Chart sheet 2171CD ?
    Ray was about 60 nautical miles from Guernsey and about 15 nautical miles from ORTAC when he first saw the first light (Point A on Diagram 1). This point does not appear on the CAA Chart that David has copied to us. ORTAC is located on 50 degrees latitude but does not appear on any maps. At first Ray thought the first light was 10-15 nautical miles away (i.e. close to ORTAC) but later realised it was much further away  perhaps 50 nautical miles at point Z on Diagram 1.
  17. How high were you when you first saw the first light ?
    Flight Level 40, which is between 4,000 and 4,300 feet above sea level. Ray will need to check this because air pressure was slightly higher than average, he thought about 1023 Mb which would about 4,300 feet. [it says 1021 Mb on the SRG report - right hand side, PF]. 1021Mb = 4180 feet.
  18. How fast were you travelling ?
    Ray reported that he was cruising at 130 knots which is roughly 150 miles per hour which is crudely just over 2 miles per minute [actually about 2.5 miles per minute, ignoring wind speed, PF]
  19. Can you give a precise direction for the aircraft ? Was this a straight line approach to Alderney ?
    Yes, it was a straight-line approach after leaving Southampton Airport. The flight was on flight path Romeo 41 = radial 207 degrees [27 degrees west of due south, PF]  this direction is marked on the SRG diagram [which Ray says he has never seen before, PF]
  20. Were you in level flight, ascending or descending ?
    Level.
  21. Was the autopilot engaged or were you flying the aircraft ?
    The aircraft was on autopilot until Ray began his descent into Alderney.
  22. Did you experience any clear air turbulence during the flight ?
    None at all.
  23. Could you see the horizon properly as you approached the Channel Islands ?
    Yes, Ray could see the sea horizon clearly. There was a little bit of cloud around towards the east at the same level so that [horizon] was a bit obscured but it wasn't [obscured] in the direction of the object. Cloud overcast at about 8,000 feet.
  24. Were you over land when you saw the first light ?
    No. Over sea.
  25. Could you see the Casquets Lighthouse ?
    Yes, it was to Ray's right.
  26. If so, where were these features ? Please indicate on diagram 1.
    The Casquets Lighthouse was at Point C on Diagram 1. Unfortunately Ray's initial flight line covers most of the available paper so he has drawn Point C unrealistically close to Alderney.
  27. How much cloud cover was there ?
    To the east there was 3/8ths cloud cover. To the south/west/north there was 6/8s or 7/8s cloud cover with stratus overcast 8-10,000 feet with patches of thin cloud between (decompression). This cloud cover extended to 10 miles to the south of Guernsey. This equates to +6C on a standard day.
  28. What kind of cloud could you see and at what level was the cloud ?
    Ditto.
  29. Was it raining or precipitating ?
    No rain or precipitation.
  30. How cold was it outside the aircraft ?
    Ray would need to check his log book but believes it was "well above freezing"  about 10 degrees Celsius.
  31. What was the wind speed and from which direction was it coming ?
    Ray says this is in his pilot's log book.
  32. Where was the sun in the sky ?
    Behind the clouds but virtually straight ahead.
  33. Was the sun higher in the sky than you, at the same level or below you ?
    Ray's "pure guess" is that the sun was much higher in the sky  perhaps 40-43 degrees above the horizon. Well above the top of the windscreen.
  34. At what time did you first notice the first light ?
    Ray cannot be sure of the time but it is in his log. 3 minutes before the first call to ATC (log). The times he gave me were wrong. However, he was about 15 miles north of ORTAC.
  35. How can you be sure that this was the correct time ?
    Can't be sure  it is in his pilots log book.
  36. How bright was the first light in comparison with the sun ?
    Ray couldn't see the sun because it was overcast directly ahead. However he believes that the 1st light was a brilliant yellow like the sun. He wore no visor to protect his eyes but was not dazzled by the light and it did not hurt his eyes. It was a brilliant yellow colour and Ray believes it was light-emitting.
  37. Did it appear to brighten or fade ?
    No.
  38. Did it flash on and off  and if so, at what periodicity ?
    No.
  39. What colour(s) did it exhibit.
    With his naked eyes Ray could see that the first light was a brilliant yellow and that from left to right looking at it there was a "dark graphite grey" area about two thirds of the way along for 10% of the length.
  40. Was the light to your left, right or directly ahead ?
    Slightly to the right.
  41. Was it above, below or at the same height as your aircraft ?
    Initially this first light appeared at the same height as Ray's aircraft but just before he began to descend [i.e. he pointed the aircraft's nose downwards] he thought that the first light was slightly lower  perhaps by about 2 degrees. Described as a "shallow" angle. Ray explained that it is not always easy to judge this angle if the target is many miles away [e.g. due to curvature of Earth]. [My tape recorder stopped working from this point onwards  I turned it off temporarily as an aircraft taxied past the car and when I turned it on again it did not work  I have no idea why, PF]
  42. Did it appear to have any shape when viewed with the naked eye ?
    It was long and thin horizontally.
  43. Did it appear to move or remain stationary ?
    It was stationary or very slow moving.
  44. In your CAA report and the press you were quoted saying that at first you thought the light was the reflection of some greenhouses on Guernsey. You then stated that it was not a reflection. On what basis did you reject this possible explanation ?
    This reflection, which Ray has seen many times before, only lasts for 10-15 seconds"at most". [The "greenhouse" is actually a "vinery"]
  45. Did your aircraft have an operating radar system and if so, did it indicate any target which might correlate with the first light ?
    The Trislander has no radar system.
  46. Please could you hold out your arm and estimate the visual angle subtended by the first light using this ruler. [not a British coin or a Euro] [measure Ray's arm length] [Could the light be compared with a feature on your windscreen?] [was there something on the windscreen to protect your eyes from the sunlight?]
    Ray's right arm length from shoulder to tip of his fingers is 75 cm. The first light subtended an angle of 6-7 mm when he first saw it but before the end of the sighting the light subtended an angle of 15-18 mm.
  47. For how long did you observe this first light ?
    Ray believes that he observed the first light for 12 minutes. It was about 3 minutes before he reported it to ATC.
  48. How certain can you be that this is an accurate estimate ?
    This estimate is based on memory. However, the CAA tapes should be able to confirm the 9 minute duration he was in contact with Jersey ATC.
  49. How sharply defined was this first light ?
    Very sharply defined throughout the whole of the sighting.
  50. How long was it before you observed the light through binoculars ?
    1.5-2 minutes from the start of the sighting [and before he contacted ATC, PF]
  51. What was the power of the binoculars ?
    Variable 730 x up to 15. Ray believes he used x 10 for most of the sighting.
  52. For how long did you observe the first light through binoculars ?
    10-12 minutes.
  53. Was your impression that you were observing a bright reflected light or something that was emitting light ?
    Emitting light.
  54. Did this impression change when you observed the light through binoculars ?
    No.
  55. Please can you draw the first light as you first saw it, then as you saw it through binoculars. Please show any features or colours. This is diagram 2.
    Top left shows light as seen with his naked eye. The larger light is what Ray saw through his binoculars. Both were " sunshine' yellow".
  56. Was this object precisely defined or hazily defined ?
    Precisely defined.
  57. On your diagram you have sketched a dark area to the right of the centre of the object. Was this darker area sharply defined or hazily defined ? Did this dark area remain consistent or did it shift ? How can you be sure that this was not an optical illusion due to the brightness of the main part of the object ?
    The dark area was hazily defined at its boundary with the yellow zones. The dark zone was glittering/shaky  Ray found this aspect difficult to describe. Ray did not think this was caused by an optical illusion e.g. because of the brilliance of the adjacent yellow light.
  58. You were quoted in The Guernsey Press saying that this first light was "about 10 miles away" and then you said that "I later realised it was approximately 40 miles from us". You compared the light with a 737. On what did you base these estimates of distance and size ?
    The sharply defined structure.
  59. Did you notice any unusual effects in your cockpit  for example to your instruments or radio communications - during this initial stage of your sighting ?
    None at all. Ray himself checks the instruments before and after all flights. No problems whilst in flight.
  60. At what point did you contact Jersey ATC ?
    After 2-3 minutes.
  61. What did you say to them ?
    "Do you have any traffic on a reciprocal heading ?"
  62. How did they respond ?
    "No."
  63. Did they have any unusual targets on their radar system ?
    At first no. Ray asked again 2 minutes later and they still had nothing on their radar. It was only on the third [possibly fourth, PF] occasion that Ray was asked to describe what he was seeing and then Jersey ATC reported a primary contact. Ray reported the lights on a secure frequency.
  64. Have you subsequently spoken to these people about your sighting and their target ?
    Not about this sighting. Ray has spoken to Paul Kelly to find out where the radar tapes are stored but not spoken to him about the radar tracks. Ray knew Paul Kelly two years previously [I think just in passing, PF] [Ray has ticked this]
  65. Does Jersey ATC often have unusual returns on its radar during your flights ?
    Ray has not heard of Jersey ATC having unusual targets before but he may not be privy to these. Ray said that Jersey ATC have jurisdiction up to 18,000 feet, it is French airspace above that height.
  66. Do you know at what range and height the Jersey ATC radar can see when pointing towards your aircraft ?
    [Omitted as we can get this from Paul Kelly]
  67. Did you see any ships below you when you were observing the first light ?
    Cannot recall seeing any but it was very hazy below the aircraft.
  68. How did the first light disappear ? Was this due to atmospheric conditions or was this due to the light's behaviour, or a combination of both ?
    Ray believes that the lights disappeared from view almost as soon as he descended into the hazy level at about 2,000 feet. Above the haze he could see 100 miles in all directions but once in the haze visibility dropped to 5-7 miles. These figures are a bit misleading because Ray could see straight ahead for some miles but looking down through the haze at an angle visibility was much reduced. The haze was a general atmospheric haze due to bad air from the continent, it was not a salt haze from the sea. Ray could not see the horizon when he landed on Alderney.
  69. Did the 1st light flicker or appear to move as it disappeared ?
    No. The first light was stationary. It did not flash.
  70. What height were you at when the first light disappeared ?
    About 2,000 feet. [Ray has indicated that this question assumes both lights disappeared at different times - in fact they disappeared at the same time.]
  71. Were you still on the same course as prior to the sighting and at the same speed; or had you made any course adjustments during your observation of the first light?
    Yes. However, Ray made a few very minor course adjustments as he came into land.
  72. Where were you on diagram 1 when the first light disappeared ?
    [We need to compute this from the timing on the ATC tapes, PF]
  73. Did you see the second light when the first light was still visible ? If not, how long after the first light disappeared did the second light appear. Please mark Diagram 1 to show where you were when light 2 appeared.
    Yes, Ray could see both lights. They both disappeared at the same time. He was at point B, ORTAC, when the second light appeared. ORTAC is an imaginary point at 50 N in the airway and borrows its name from the actual Ortac rock west of Alderney by about 2 nautical miles.
  74. When the second light appeared could you see the Islands of Alderney and Guernsey, and if so  how distinct were they ?
    Yes, they were both pretty clear.
  75. Where was the second light in the sky ? Was it above/below/same level, to the left/right/straight ahead ?
    Initially the second light was slightly to the right of the first light  perhaps by 10 degrees. As Ray descended into haze the two lights appeared to be lined up. See DIAGRAM 4.
  76. Was this second light as bright as the first light ?
    The second light was slightly dimmer than the first light.
  77. Did the second light appear to be the same size as the first light ?
    The second light was about half [slightly more than half, PF] of the size of the first light. However, Ray thought that this was just because the second light was [much] further away. See Diagram 4.
  78. For how long did you observe the second light ?
    6-7 minutes. Ray immediately reported the second light to Jersey ATC on his frequency. 118.85 MHz Ray thinks.
  79. Did you observe it through binoculars ?
    Yes
  80. For how long did you observe this second light through binoculars ?
    6-7 minutes.
  81. How certain can you be that this is an accurate estimate ?
    We need to refer to the ATC tapes.
  82. Did it appear to brighten or fade ?
    No.
  83. Did it flash on and off  and if so, at what periodicity ?
    No.
  84. How sharply defined was this second light ?
    As good as the first light.
  85. Was your impression that you were observing a bright reflected light or something that was emitting light ?
    Emitting light.
  86. How long was it before you observed the second light through binoculars ?
    Almost immediately. At one point Ray could see both lights at the same time through his binoculars.
  87. For how long did you observe the second light through binoculars ?
    [Duplicate question, PF]
  88. Was this second object sharply or hazily defined when seen through binoculars ?
    Sharply defined.
  89. Did this impression change when you observed the second light through binoculars ?
    No.
  90. Please can you draw the second light as you first saw it, then as you saw it through binoculars. Please show any features or colours. This is Diagram 3.
    The second light was exactly the same as the first light.
  91. Did you notice any unusual effects in your cockpit  for example to your instruments or radio communications - during this second stage of your sighting ?
    No.
  92. Did your onboard radar indicate any target that might have correlated with the second light ?
    N/A.
  93. How did the second light disappear ?
    Same as the first one, when Ray descended into the hazy area.
  94. Did the 2nd light flicker or appear to move as it disappeared ?
    No.
  95. Do you attribute the disappearance of both lights wholly to haze or did the lights' behaviour contribute to their disappearance ?
    Purely due to the presence of the haze.
  96. Were you still above the sea when the 2nd light disappeared ?
    Yes.
  97. Could you see the islands of Alderney and Guernsey distinctly at the end of the sighting ?
    Alderney could be seen distinctly, Guernsey was in haze.
  98. Were you still on the same course as prior to the sighting, and at the same speed; or had you made any course adjustments during your observation of the first light?
    Yes. Ray made some very slight course corrections as he came into land to line up with the runway. [!]
  99. Did you see any ships below you when you saw this second light ?
    Can't recall seeing any.
  100. About how long did the whole encounter last ?
    10-12 minutes.
  101. How certain can you be that this is an accurate estimate ?
    The ATC tapes will give an accurate figure.
  102. Did you report the lights' appearance to your passengers ?
    No, not until he landed. However, as reported in question 15 at least 3 people noticed the lights themselves.
  103. Did you have a record of their names and addresses so that we can contact them ?
    N/A
  104. Did you see any other unusual phenomena during the encounter ?
    None.
  105. Are you aware of anyone living on the Channel Islands seeing or reporting unusual lights at the time of your encounter ?
    No. However, some pilots have reported seeing lights to Ray.
  106. What was the first thing you thought of when you saw the lights ?
    Ray thought they were the reflection off the Vinery/Greenhouse.
  107. Did you think in terms of substantial "objects" or perhaps some insubstantial weather or optical phenomenon ?
    Ray thought he was seeing substantial objects not weather/optical phenomena.
  108. How do you feel about Jersey ATC characterising the radar contact as a possible anomalous propagation effect ?
    Jersey ATC reported anomalous propagation to Ray's left hand side [east/south east] in cloud as he began his descent. Two minutes into the sighting Jersey reported a primary target and this was overflown by BAE146 Gatwick to Guernsey. However, the pilot of this aircraft saw nothing. Captain and Flight Officer on this flight have confirmed this.
  109. Did Jersey ATC describe to you in any detail what they could see on their screen ?
    No, they just reported seeing a primary contact.
  110. What does the CAA have to say about the radar contact ?
    Nothing. They have not spoken to Ray. Neither has the UK Ministry of Defence spoken to Ray.
  111. Did they talk directly to you about the radar aspect ?
    No.
  112. Did they alter their story once they had spoken to Jersey ATC ?
    No.
  113. How has your airline treated you for going public with this sighting ?
    There have been no problems. The sighting was leaked to the Guernsey Press by a third party [someone at the airline?] and the newspaper contacted Aurigny. The Managing Director Malcolm Hart contacted Ray to ask him if he minded talking to the press so Ray gave an interview. Ray felt that the airline welcomed the publicity.
  114. Have you ever seen anything else which you could not identify during a flight ?
    Yes, Ray has already reported to David Clarke that on a previous occasion he was flying from Alderney to Southampton when a large cylindrical object 25-30 degrees in arc appeared before him for 2-3 minutes. The object was thin and 4 times in height to its width [?]. It was lost in cloud. Ray also recalls the light that was seen by a Police helicopter over Brighton which appeared on the front page of the Brighton Argus a few years ago. [I'm not sure from my notes whether Ray actually saw this light, PF]
  115. Have you spoken to the pilot of the Blue Islands aircraft about his sighting ?
    No
  116. Do you know his name ?
    Yes but at present it is private so he cannot release the pilot's name to us.
  117. How certain do you feel that he saw the same light as your first light ?
    It was similar so could be the first light Ray saw. It was briefly seen by this other pilot at his 8 o'clock position, which is behind his left shoulder [to the north of his aircraft, PF]. He was travelling at 4 miles a minute [nearly twice as fast as Ray's aircraft] and had no onboard radar.
  118. Have any other pilots known to your reported seeing similar lights or objects in the Channel Islands area recently ?
    No, not similar. Several have reported seeing unusual objects to Ray.
  119. The Guernsey Press reported that you were flying from Southampton to Alderney but the BBC web site states that you were "about to fly an Aurigny plane from Alderney to Southampton". Surely the BBC account is wrong ?
    The BBC account is wrong.
  120. The CAA aeronautical chart shows several areas to the east of the Channel Islands which are French controlled flying zones. Please could you explain what each of these zones means.
    [See additional notes below, PF]
  121. Are you aware of any recent balloon flights from the Cherbourg peninsular or Normandy or Brittany which might fly over the Channel Islands if the wind is in the right direction ?
    No. Ray has never seen balloons in the Channel Islands area. Any balloons seen over the Channel Islands would have to be launched from Brest [or as I suggested the mid Atlantic, PF] due to the prevailing south-westerly wind.
  122. Did you report your sighting to the French Authorities once the British Ministry of Defence stated that the sighting took place in their air space ?
    No.
  123. Have the French authorities contacted you about your sighting ?
    No.
  124. Have you had any follow up interviews or conversations with the Ministry of Defence of the Civil Aviation Authority since submitting your report ?
    None.

End of interview. Interview began at circa 17.05 and ended at 19.05 Hrs BST.

Towards the end of the interview Ray drew Diagram 5 which attempts to show how his angle of sight to the lights changed from a few degrees to the right to about 20 degrees to the right as he neared Alderney.

* * *

The following list of questions had been compiled by Martin Shough and was put to Capt Bowyer by Paul Fuller at the same interview

  1. Times of first and last sightings.
    In CAA SRG report.
  2. Location, heading and altitude of aircraft at time of first sighting.
    In CAA SRG report.
  3. Location, heading and altitude of aircraft at time of last sighting.
    The aircraft's heading changed by between 3 and 5 degrees between the first and last sightings.
  4. What first drew your attention to the 1st object?
    Ray's attention was drawn to the first object by its brilliant light.
  5. Could you estimate the angular widths of each object, in terms of familiar objects at arm's length or measurement at arm's length?
    See answer to question 46.
  6. If the 2nd object was initially not seen, why do you think this was?
    The 2nd object was probably just below/on[?] the top of the haze layer. It is possible that the SW breeze pushed the haze up higher in the lee of Guernsey (i.e. towards Alderney and Ray's aircraft).
  7. Were both objects in view simultaneously for a time?
    Yes, both objects were seen at the same time for a time.
  8. Were both objects the same in every respect (shape, colour, brightness, sharpness etc) except for apparent size?
    Yes, see answer to questions 76, 77 and 90. Second object slightly dimmer. Otherwise both were identical.
  9. Did they change in appearance (size, position, shape, colour, brightness, sharpness etc) during the sighting?
    Objects changed slightly  became larger, shifted towards right, but retained their internal consistency.
  10. Can you describe the appearance of the "dark bands" on the objects in more detail - i.e., the shape, sharpness, and colouration (if any) and what "dark" means a) relative to the object(s) and b) relative to the sky/sea background?
    The dark areas were darker than the yellow part of the object and lighter than the background (haze/ground). The dark was a "graphite grey" colour. The dark bands oscillated on both objects.
  11. At what point during the sighting did you begin using binoculars?
    1.5-2 minutes. See answer to question 50.
  12. Were any of the details described visible only through binoculars - i.e., if you had not had binoculars with you, would your description of the objects have been exactly the same?
    No, both objects appeared the same when seen visually as they did when seen through binoculars. The only difference was their size and brilliance.
  13. Did you and the passenger witnesses compare observations at the time?
    No, Ray did not compare his observations with those of his passengers. See answer to question 15.
  14. Did they express an opinion about what they were seeing?
    "Never seen anything like this before" and "Very unusual".
  15. Did you point out the presence of the object to them or did they spot it independently?
    The passengers who saw the lights spotted them independently of Ray, he did not point the lights out to them.
  16. In your opinion, were the objects reflecting sunlight or self-luminous?
    The objects were self-luminous, not reflecting sunlight.
  17. Can you describe the way in which the objects were lost to view ?
    See answer to questions 68 and 93.
  18. The presence of haze has been mentioned. Can you describe the altitude(s) and density of the haze?
    Ditto.
  19. What was the visibility of the islands like from the air as you approached Alderney?
    See answer to questions 74 and 97.
  20. Were the objects seen against the sky or the sea as a background? Was the sea horizon distinct?
    The objects were seen against both the sea and the Islands.
  21. You mentioned that your first thought was of sun reflecting from Guernsey greenhouses. Was this an effect you had seen before?
    Yes, see answer to Question 44.
  22. Could you see the island of Guernsey itself at this time?
    Yes, Ray could see Guernsey when he saw the first light.
  23. If so, would you be able to compare the apparent width(s) of the objects(s) to the apparent width of the island (i.e., similar, half as wide, twice as wide etc)?
    See answer to question 46.
  24. Can you give the apparent visual position(s) of the object(s) with respect to Guernsey (i.e., "same bearing", "one island width to the left", "five degrees to the right" etc) a) when first seen b) when last seen?
    When first seen the objects were at an oblique angle to the right of the flight path straight to Guernsey. See diagram 3.
  25. Could you estimate the approximate true position(s) of the object(s) with respect to any of the islands?
    no answer recorded
  26. Did you circle around to the S of Alderney in order to land into the wind on the E-W tarmac runway?
    No, Ray did not circle the island to the south, he landed on runway 26 coming straight in from the NE. [Ray has ticked this question]
  27. Do you recall looking again for the objects as you approached, or from the ground after landing?
    Ray looked for the objects as he approached Alderney but by then they had disappeared. Alderney ATC could see nothing either.
  28. What was the visibility like on the ground compared to the visibility in the air?
    [No answer recorded]
  29. Do you think that one or both of the objects might have been visible from the ground had they still been there?
    Ray thinks that had it not been for the haze both objects would have been visible from the ground. [Ray has ticked this question]
  30. How would you characterise the flying conditions generally? Was there anything else unusual about the day?
    Flying conditions were "standard", it was a "normal day".
  31. How long had you been flying this route? Would you say you were very familiar with the appearance of the area in different conditions?
    Ray has flown this route for 8.5 years and is very familiar with the area under different flying conditions.
  32. I understand that you know the names of two passengers (the Russells) who were also witnesses. Are you able/intending to contact them for their accounts of the object?
    Ray has not spoken to the Russells since they left his aircraft, but he believes that John Russell gave an interview on Radio Guernsey. Of course there may be a tape recording of this interview.
  33. How many of your total (16 or 17?) passengers did, to your knowledge, see the objects?
    Ray thinks that 5 of his passengers saw the lights.
  34. To your knowledge, did anyone take any film or photos?
    As far as he knows no one took photographs of these lights. [Ray joked with me that he had taken photographs !]
  35. Did you notice any unusual responses from cockpit instruments at any time?
    Ray noticed no unusual responses from the cockpit instruments at any time during the flight or sighting.
  36. Have you ever seen/reported anything like this before?
    Ray has seen another object (see answer to question 114) which he has described to David Clarke but he has never reported seeing an object until this sighting.

Additional notes by Paul Fuller

Martin, in answer to your first point, both lights became larger as Ray flew towards them. The first light grew to 15-18 mm in size using the ruler at arms length test, the second light grew to 6-8 mm at arms length. These are the largest estimates of angular size that we have.

I have loaned Ray my camera to take photographs of the aircraft and the horizon/islands and cockpit windows as he approaches Alderney. There are 24 exposures for him to use up ! Unfortunately I cannot fly so cannot take these photographs myself. [The photos show DME distances from Guernsey. First sighting 50-ish nautical miles from Guernsey. Last about 30 nautical miles.]

I did not raise the radar questions as he already has these by email.

Jean-Francois Baure's Questions

Hi Jean-Francois,

I hope the above response at Question 46 answers your question about the angular size but if not we can always go back to Ray. Ray does not recall saying that the lights were "25 miles" away. He has indicated on Diagram 1 that when he first saw the first light he was still north of ORTAC and that he thought the first light was 15 nautical miles away. He was at Flight Level 40 (circa 4,300 feet). He did not see the second light until he reached ORTAC (at 50 degrees latitude). He thought the second light was 50 Nautical miles away. The Casquets Lighthouse was seen to the right of both lights. None of the diagrams are to scale. SAM = Southampton Airport, IOW = Isle of Wight, ALI = Alderney.

Diagram 3 shows the same situation. The first light was thought to be approximately 2 nautical miles south of the Casquets Lighthouse as seen from "1st sighting" whilst the second light is 10 nautical miles south west of the Island of Guernsey [Note by MS: Ref. Diagram 3, this should read "10 nautical miles south west of the first light"], slightly to the right of the initial line of sight from the first light.

Both lights were seen against the both the ground and haze. The lights were both seen on or just below the horizon, then above as Ray descended.

The cloud/haze distribution is answered in question 27, 68 and 95.

None of the diagrams are to scale, they are just representative.

The shaded area around Sark on the CAA Aeronatical Chart sheet 217100 edition 25 is a noise restricted zone. Aircraft are not permitted to fly below 2,000 feet to prevent noise pollution. Aircraft have no other restrictions in the Channel Islands area except that they have to ask permission from the relevant ATC to enter the areas surrounded by the dashed lines. The shaded areas on the Cherbourg Peninsular are within French Airspace and are restricted zones but aircraft flying from Southampton to the Channel Islands should not be anywhere near these zones anyway. There is a large airport at Cherbourg. Two nuclear plants on the French coast - one exclusion zone.

Paul Fuller, 9th June 2008

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